Katie Martin and Devin Vodicka are Co-CEOs of the Learner-Centered Collaborative, a grantee of the Youth Thriving Through Learning Fund. In this Q&A, they talk with Amber Hu about transforming school systems into places that help students thrive and about their work related to California’s Secondary School Redesign Pilot, a $10 million investment designed to reimagine what middle and high schools across the state can be.
Amber: In the Learner-Centered Ecosystem white paper, you write that most schools still operate from a school-centered paradigm. What does it mean for a high school to instead be learner-centered? What does that look like in action and practice?
Katie: School-centered models were designed for an industrial era, so they are based on standardization, ranking, and sorting people―completing assignments and just moving along. A learner-centered system is a place where young people have agency. They’re doing work that matters. It’s about personalization and helping students understand where they’re going. In high schools specifically, we want young people to understand their strengths, talents, goals, and challenges, and to be able to take courses and have experiences that help them build on that. So, it’s not just going through a six-period day, taking math and English and science. Of course it’s about those academic foundations, but we also want to see students in internships, collaborating on projects, working with community organizations, and understanding the workforce and how their strengths, interests, and talents connect to those opportunities.
One of my favorite examples is a young woman I talked to in Paramount, California. In her sophomore year, she thought she wanted to be a doctor until she had an internship opportunity to work in a hospital and realized she hated it. So instead of continuing to go to school for 8 years to be a doctor, she realized, “I need to look at some other pathways, because I don’t want to spend my life doing that.” I call that a huge win.
Amber: COVID recovery, the rise in AI technology, and other shifts in today’s world present schools with an opportunity to reimagine what it means to teach and learn. What do learners need to prepare them for an evolving future, and what can schools do to meet those needs?
Devin: These factors have been building over many years, and they are an indication that the systems and structures that we’ve had in K-12 public education were designed for a different era. It’s been a while since we stepped back and reconsidered: If we were designing learning experiences based on what we know now, based on the science of learning and cognitive science and human development and the emergence of new technology, what would we do differently? What are the outcomes that we need to orient to that might be unique and different than they were in another era?
Katie: In terms of what schools need to become: They need to become community hubs. They need to be central and permeable, so it is not just this isolated building where young people go for 7 hours and then leave, and it’s disconnected from the rest of their lives. We need to reimagine the day and think about how to create schools that allow students to move more flexibly among their passions, their interests, their academics, and tie them all together. These shifts would allow for them to have a full life, not just one that’s crammed at the edges.
Amber: What do you see as the potential and power of the California Secondary School Redesign Pilot to help schools make these shifts?
Katie: The California Secondary School Redesign Pilot has real potential to be a turning point for this work because it represents both a signal and a shift. The state’s endorsement matters. It validates that this isn’t fringe innovation, but necessary evolution. It also acknowledges something many educators have been feeling for a long time: we can’t keep layering new initiatives onto outdated systems and expect different results. It’s time to redesign the core structures themselves to create the kind of meaningful, engaging learning experiences our students actually deserve.
What’s especially powerful about this pilot is that it shines a light across the state to highlight what’s working alongside the real barriers that have been holding schools back. That visibility creates shared learning and a stronger case for change. At the same time, the pilot gives schools permission to try, test, and iterate in ways that traditional systems often discourage. That combination—permission plus visibility—has the potential to catalyze real momentum, moving redesign from isolated efforts to a more coherent, statewide movement.
Amber: How will this type of purpose-driven, personalized, holistic learning change how young people experience school?
Katie: I want young people to have opportunities not just to read Shakespeare and fill in tests, but also to understand their strengths and interests. This means being able to see beyond college prep courses and a 4.6 GPA to what they want to do in their lives, how they want to thrive in their community, and what opportunities and challenges might exist for them in that path. I think we get so caught up in, “Did you do your homework? Do you have an A? What college are you going to?” that we’re not helping them develop their ideas and aspirations. The more we can incorporate that into our schooling and education ecosystems, the better off students will be, and all of us will be in the long run.
Devin: I have met many young people who are motivated, interested, and curious, but who feel like they needed to check all of those things at the door to just play the game of school. This is why many amazing young people disengage or drop out: not because they don’t have incredible assets and strengths to bring into the world, but because they don’t see the value of playing that game of school. We need to change that for every young person. An important part of that is welcoming diverse cultural experiences and identities so students can bring their whole selves into school. Seeing differences as strengths and assets not only helps us do a better job of knowing young people as individuals, but also supports them being able to thrive in community and engage in the world as their best selves.
Amber: What are some schools you’ve worked with that exemplify these learner-centered features?
Katie: Bostonia Global is a high school in Cajon Valley Union School District in San Diego County exploring the competency-based model and helping young people navigate school with intentionality, develop projects, and progress in essential skills. They also prioritize mentoring, which is something we don’t make time for in a traditional model that can really help students engage with academics with more intentionality.
Devin: VIDA, or the Vista Innovation Design Academy, is a middle school in Vista Unified School District, also in San Diego County. They undertook a very ambitious school redesign project anchored in design thinking. It was really spectacular to see how incorporating human-centered design thinking throughout the school structures elevated engagement, achievement, and excitement and energy about learning. That success influenced change at the high school level: When the first group of students graduated from VIDA to Vista High, they met with the principal the first week of school to share: We know what we’re capable of. We are active learners, we can contribute a lot, and we’re not going to sit here passively for the next four years. And that influenced the redesign at the high school and the formation of a personal learning academy that ended up winning an XQ Super School Prize (awarded to innovative high school models).
Another example is Circulos High School in Santa Ana Unified School District, which has an innovative practice called Community Week. Every 6 to 8 weeks, the students nominate and vote on courses they want to take. The school then offers a week of these student-generated courses, sometimes taught by the students themselves. I saw a high school student teaching about the difference between Roth IRAs and traditional IRAs and it was awesome—it was relevant and authentic and meaningful.
Amber: As you look ahead, how do you hope the field will reclaim or reimagine the purpose of public schooling, and what will it take to bring that vision to life?
Katie: Many of these examples and models doing amazing things for young people are still on the fringes, outside of the neighborhood public high school. We need to bring these new and better approaches into our traditional public school systems so that all students can engage in learning they’re excited about. I always think about the Gallup poll that showed engagement decline significantly from 6th grade to 12th grade, with only 30% of students saying they are doing things that they do best, having fun, and doing something meaningful. We can flip that, where 90-100% of young people are doing things that matter to them. To do that, we need to get really honest about what young people need, instead of being beholden to the models adults are familiar with.
Devin: There’s not some organization or entity out there that is going to just resolve these complex challenges and immense opportunities in education. It’s really up to each of us. Margaret Wheatley says that you should keep asking two questions: “Who cares?” and “What’s possible?” When you think about who cares about education and young people, it’s a lot of people. And if you invite them into this conversation about what’s possible, then you see incredible things emerging through that dialogue and dreaming together. I have seen this happen in more and more communities over the past few years. This is a time for us to come together and keep asking that question about what’s possible.